Will North Dakota Reach -50 degree tempuratures

Is this in degrees Celsius or Fahrenheit?

Is this in degrees Celsius or Fahrenheit? Also where in the state do you measure. Needs to be more specific. (Flagged)

um...considering it's in america, i think it'd be in fahrenheit people...plus it probably means anywhere in the state..i could find 50 other questions, easy, that'd be better to flag

Important: Measured temperatures/recorded temperatures are influenced by wind chill. This should be noted. Thanks!

according to noaa the coldest its been in the last 3 days was -28

it says temperature...not wind chill...thats what I was betting on

yeah me too...national weather service/noaa says low temp for jan. was -28 http://www.crh.noaa.gov/product.php?site=bis&product=clm&issuedby=isn&glossary=0

Measured temperatures are not affected by, so-called, wind chill. Wind chill is ONLY related to temperature on exposed skin. Check a reference site for more information.

I was betting on temps also - it doesn't say anything about windchill. I only see it going as low as -31. It's a little eerie that the windchild number at Devil's Lake was -51 - but all the same, that's just wind chill, not temperature.

Why is this question suspended as opposed to settled? The end date has passed and the temperature in ND did not drop below -50. This is immediately verifiable and the outcome is inarguable.

The correct answer is: YES. According to the National Weather Service, recorded temps reached a low of -54 f degrees. What is -54 degrees? It's a recorded temperature.

Temperatures, wind chills dip far below zero in upper Midwest
Posted: 10:30 AM Jan 29, 2008
Last Updated: 10:30 AM Jan 29, 2008
Reporter: The Associated Press

Forecasters in the upper Midwest are warning of "life-threatening" conditions during a bitter arctic cold snap over the next two days.

A wind chill warning is in effect for all of North Dakota. High temperatures aren't expected to get above zero anywhere in the state today and winds are gusting up to more than 40 miles per hour. The National Weather Service says the overnight wind chill in Garrison, North Dakota, dropped to 54 below zero.

Correct answer is: YES.

Here's the link:

http://www.wndu.com/weather/headlines/14760357.html

54 degrees blow zero isn't some guys arbitrary 'opinion' of how cold it felt-- it was factual scientific data recorded by the National Weather Service using state-of-the-art scientific equipment. Again-- what is -54 degrees? It's not a persons opinion-- it's a recorded temperature. How or why it came about is irrelevant-- it was recorded and reported by the AP.

windchills are NOT temperature...my link above shows the temp...in fact the coldest recorded temp in history for january is -42.

PUBLIC INFORMATION STATEMENT
NATIONAL WEATHER SERVICE WILLISTON ND
218 AM CST FRI FEB 1 2008

...JANUARY 2008 WAS WARMER AND MUCH DRIER THAN NORMAL...

THE AVERAGE TEMPERATURE FOR JANUARY WAS 10.9 DEGREES WHICH WAS 2.9
DEGREES ABOVE THE NORMAL OF 8.0 DEGREES. THE HIGHEST TEMPERATURE FOR
THE MONTH WAS 48 DEGREES ON THE 4TH...THIS IS THE EIGHTH HIGHEST
HIGH TEMPERATURE RECORDED FOR THE MONTH OF JANUARY. THE LOWEST
TEMPERATURE FOR THE MONTH WAS 28 BELOW ZERO ON THE 29TH. A NEW
RECORD HIGH OF 48 DEGREES WAS SET FOR THE 4TH WHICH BEAT THE OLD
RECORD HIGH OF 43 DEGREES WHICH WAS SET IN 1914 AND 1984.

The fact remains that the question did not say anything about wind chill, which is a calculated value to give people a sense of what the weather feels like as opposed to a measurable value such as temperature. Originally wind chill was measured in kilocalories/hour which was measurable rather than the new fudgy formula that assumes that on is:
a) walking
b) in an open field
c) into the wind at exactly 3 mph
d) and is 33ft tall (the standard height of an anemometer)

further reading on windchill found here :)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wind_chill

a 3-day history for Garrison, ND, zipcode 58540 via NOAA, located here: http://www.weather.gov/data/obhistory/KN60.html shows a low-temp of -24 degrees at 4:52 am on the 30th

1) The National Weather Service says the overnight wind chill in Garrison, North Dakota, dropped to 54 below zero.

2) This was reported by the Associated Press on this local news website: http://www.wndu.com/weather/headlines/14760357.html

3) 54 below zero is NOT an opinion; it is not an "as if" or "what it would've felt like." -54 is a factually recorded t e m p e r a t u r e reading utilizing scientific equipment. It was NOT gathered by asking some guy what it felt like on his skin out in the fields. The equipment registered a low temp of -54 degrees.

4) This was reported as factual according to the National Weather Service AND the Associated Press. They may not have posted the records to all their sites yet, but it was recorded and reported.

5) -54 isn't a hockey score-- it's a temperature. Did the temperature reach -50? Yes. Could the question have been phrased more precisely? Sure.

blueseamiami: just because wind chill is factually recorded and reported doesn't make it a temperature. As you posted, "The National Weather Service says the overnight wind chill in Garrison, North Dakota, dropped to 54 below zero." That is not the same as "-50 degree tempuratures". According to the National Ocean and Atmospheric Administration page at http://www.srh.noaa.gov/graphical/definitions/defineWindChill.html, Wind chill is calculated based on the temperature in degrees Fahrenheit and the wind speed in statute miles per hour. Therefore, wind chill is a metric derived from temperature and wind speed, not a temperature in and of itself.

Cant't we all just get along?! How do we get the question taken out of suspended status? Someone needs to make a ruling - preferrably in favor of "No," as the "temperature" never reached -54...while the "wind chill factor" may have (I've never heard it called the "wind chill factor temperature," but rather "feels like.").

Yes, this is crap. It DID NOT go below -50F. Wind chill is never factored into TEMPERATURE for uses such as this.

I want my money back!

you can delete my account if this is the way your going to be...for the very same city that he says went down to -54, the national weather service says didnt even go below 0...the author of the question didnt say anything about windchill

it the very least you should have voided the question

even in the link you posted for the settlement notes, it doesn't say ANYWHERE that the temperature dropped to -54 degrees....looks like your playing favorites hubdub

Appreciate everyone's feedback! However, you cannot argue with logic.

Question: What is the National Weather Service recording of -54 f degrees in Garrison, ND?

Answer: A temperature. Not an opinion, not a guess, not "it seems like," or "would've felt like," not a coefficient, it's a temperature.

Question: Did it reach -50 degrees?

Answer: Yes.

If it wasn't recorded on scientific instruments, journalistic integrity would require the Associated Press to cite that it "may have felt like -54f." But that's not what the article said. It said the National Weather Service said -54 f was achieved. -54f is a temperature. Why not 200 f below or 5 f below? Because -54 was recorded and measured by them, if only in Garrison, ND.

I think we all need to phrase our questions very carefully to avoid future ambiguity. Hey, I'd be delighted to see everyone come out of this a winner. Maybe we're all right on a technicality.

hmmm..settlement details says: This question was settled Today 11:19am PST
Winning outcome:
Yes
using these rules given by the question creator:

As reported by a major mainstream news source.
SETTLEMENT NOTES:
http://www.weather.gov/view/prodsByState.php?state=ND&prodtype=climate
SETTLEMENT NOTES:
http://www.wndu.com/weather/headlines/14760357.html


the first link doesn't have ANY temps at or below -50...the second link says the overnight windchill dropped to -54...now knowing that the lowest temps are in the early morning hours, which was AFTER the question closed, i can only surmise that hubdub is playing favorites....i'm gone

send me a link from the national weather service that says the temperature was -54 below midnight...you've already seen my links

pics4d-- I didn't even make a prediction on this, but the settlement is worse than annoying. Of course you and others are right: temperature is not wind chill. I just posted a complaint about this on the getsatisfaction forum (click on "help"). They may be more responsive if you add your comments there.

The first settlement link contained readings ONLY from Bismarck, ND. The lows occurred in Garrison, ND, many miles away.

http://www.wndu.com/weather/headlines/14760357.html

where's the time?...."The National Weather Service says the overnight wind chill in Garrison, North Dakota, dropped to 54 below zero"....nowhere does it say that it was before midnight, which was when the question ended...plus thats still not a link from the national weather service....NOAA, of which the NWS is a part of, says the coldest temp before midnight in garrison was 24 http://www.weather.gov/data/obhistory/KN60.html

Note: There are five-hour gaps in the temperature readings listed on the site. And the National Weather Service has already said -54 f was reached and recorded. They have no reason to lie about it-- also, this question ended just last night.

Here's the headline from the link in #29:
"Temperatures, wind chills dip far below zero in upper Midwest"
THEY seem to make a distinction between temperature and wind chill.

uh...1 hour gaps

and your link is from today, which means the "low" of -54 was probably recorded on feb 1st in the early morning hours

oh...sorry..two dates on the page..jan 29th was when posted

temperatures from weather.com jan 28 http://www.weather.com/weather/pastweather/hourly/58540?stn=0&when=012808 jan 29 http://www.weather.com/weather/pastweather/hourly/58540?when=012908&stn=0 jan 30 http://www.weather.com/weather/pastweather/hourly/58540?when=013008&stn=0 lowest was -24 on the 30th...also has 'felt like" temps which would be windchills

-54 f was recorded, NOT calculated with a formula- recorded. If the station only took public readings once an hour, and they said -54 f happened, it's obvious that the lows occurred in between the website data points. That doesn't nullify that it occurred. They can't list 100,000 data points per hour on their website.

Even though -50 f was achieved, and I won, fair-and-square I'd be willing to return my wager profits (not capital) on this one and have the whole question voided just to restore harmony here. But in the future, no crybabies... ;-)

No, -54 f was not recorded. No thermometer anywhere in N. Dakota would have indicated -54 at any time on the date in question. Temperatures are recorded. Wind chills are calculated. I made no prediction on this, so I'm completely neutral, not a "crybaby". I'm not really interested in "harmony" either, just fair play: equitable application of clear rules.

sorry that i get pissed when i see favoritism, but "felt like" still is not a temperature reading...wind is constantly changing which is why they don't record windchill factors for temperatures, only the actual temperature which is when there is no wind...u simply won a bunch of money because your one of the top users right now...nowhere does an actual weather service say that the temperature in garrison was -54, the one and only link you can come up with is from an AP wire story that says the windchill was -54 or in other words, it "felt like" -54 which is what the weather service says..."felt like", the actual temperature at that time was -19 degrees

You cannot "record" wind chill since it is a made up measurement based on a simulation of human facial skin... not any factual data.

The ad hominem attack of crybabies only weakens your credibility...

Volodya: Wasn't referring to you in-particular with the crybaby comment. For them to report -54 f, it had to be recorded somewhere. No one has been able to refute the question of what is -54 f? There's only one answer: It's a temperature reading. And temps dipped below -50 f. I'm fine with voiding the whole thing, even though I won. I had $13,000+ before the question, anyhow.

Pics4d: If I hold a thermometer in an open field and an icy wind blows on it,what happens to the temperature reading? Nothing??? Of course something happens, the temps go lower. No where did it say -54 f was a "calculation" by them.

Gruller: Know why I said people were being crybabies? Because I began on this website four days ago with a measly $1,000 to bet, ranked 3000+ or something. In just four days, I'm the top earner. Why? Because analysis is my life and how I make my living. I just found it funny that people are whining about losing $100 or so.

Bottom line: The question can be looked at either way. Voiding the whole question is fine with me and I don't care if I have to give back the profits. In a week or so, I'll be right back to $25,000. Good luck to all!

yes, it will go down some, but not 35 degrees, which is the difference in the TEMPERATURE and the WINDCHILL FACTOR at the time and place you stated. the fact remains that temperature is measured on a thermometer and windchill factor is a measure of temperature and wind speed. windchill is not a temperature, it is a factor of temperature and wind speed. and i'm still waiting for you to post a link from an actual weather person to refute the national weather service and weather.com assertion that the TEMPERATURE on the day in question was -24. i think my links should take precedence since they are from weather people...the only link you posted doesn't even say -54 and temperature in the same sentence, it says windchill of -54 which is a "factor", or a combination of different measurements.

blue: just be careful, we've all agreed to the terms of use, we should all abide by them.

While actually quite stimulating at first, we're debating in circles. It's Friday-- time to enjoy life away from the PC for awhile! For some reason, no one is refuting the points I've made. Because you cannot. A temperature of -54 f was registered by the National Weather Service in Garrison, ND at some point.

If anyone feels the question wasn't specific enough, which perhaps it wasn't, then that's a very valid and separate issue that needs to be addressed. Lets not confuse the issues.

What is -54 f? It's a temperature. Come on people, a thermometer in an open field when blasted by continuous +30mph icy winds will read lower! Not at ambient!

Read carefully: For the last time-- I'm fine with voiding the question and returning my gains from this wager. I'd still be at $13,000 anyway. Under the parameters and structure of the question asked, I won, but this is getting absurd already and becoming an endless-loop debate over a seeming ambiguity.

Void it, set me back to $13,000 and I'll see ya at $25k next week...

A good weekend to all!

BlueSeaMiami

i can't believe you're trying to use semantics to cheat the system...they should reverse it and take all of it away including your wager because you are wrong...i like how you put that no one is refuting you either since everyone here is and is coming up with better points than what you have which seems to consist of one sentence in an article that doesn't even mention temperature and -54 in the same sentence...everyone knows temperatures are measured on thermometers. and under the parameters and structure of the question, which was will the temperature be below -50 degrees you are wrong...maybe you should have analyzed the question a little more.

Mr. or Ms. Miami (don't know you well enough to call you Sea), are you perhaps being just a bit disingenuous? I think you know perfectly well why people are "whining", as you put it. I'll spell it out anyway: I'll take your word that analysis is your life; it doesn't matter. It would be one thing if you rose to the top in a month, or maybe even two weeks. But, no matter how shrewd, clever, or lucky you are, I very much doubt that it's possible to amass nearly H$30,000 in less than four days without gaming the system. (I don't call it cheating, because the rules thus far are so vague and ill-defined that I'm not sure what "cheating" would mean. I don't even fault you, really.) Don't be surprised if others who didn't try to cut corners are annoyed to fall behind. I don't pretend to know exactly what methods you've used, although I do find it interesting that jaybob58102, the ostensible creator of this prediction, hasn't commented even once. Without casting any aspersions, "tempuratures" was a nice touch.

Hi all, here are our (Hubdub's) conclusions on this question.

Thanks for your participation in this discussion. The three issues in play are:

1) Is the question clear enough to be valid at all?
2) If so, what is the correct answer?
3) Was this question used to game the system?

Our conclusions are as follows.

1) Is the question clear enough to be valid at all?
No. Given that two critical factors in determining the outcome are not specified in the question (a: Celsius or Fahrenheit; b: is wind-chill to be taken into account), the question is not valid.

2) If so, what is the correct answer?
Without a clear question, this cannot be answered.

3) Was this question used to game the system?
We are conducting a site-wide audit of questions and users suspected of gaming the system and will deal with that issue separately.

Action:
The question has now been voided.

This is the final action to be taken on this question, and to avoid similar ambiguity in future we urge all users to be as specific as possible when creating questions.

Here at Hubdub we're in the process of learning how best to deal with situations such as this, and all your comments have been very much appreciated. In these early days it's likely we'll err on the side of voiding questions, until we've built up a standard set of conventions for settling otherwise ambiguous questions.

@ Blue Sea Miami

You wrote: "What is -54 f? It's a temperature. Come on people, a thermometer in an open field when blasted by continuous +30mph icy winds will read lower! Not at ambient! "

No ... it won't.

A tray of water "in an open field when blasted by continuous +30mph icy winds will ..." freeze faster than it would without the wind (assuming the temperature in the field is lower than 32° F), however the temperature will remain the same. Wind chill, in simple terms, is related to evaporation of moisture ... regardless of temperature.

(The wind will evaporate moisture from the tray of water, resulting in "less water" -- with the result the remaining water will freeze faster -- as there is less water to freeze. In a similar way, a quart of water will freeze faster than a gallon of water.)

There can be a "wind 'chill' effect" when it's 90°F -- if there is wind -- however this effect is almost never reported when it's hot -- even though there is an "effect".

Please do a simple search on "wind chill" to confirm this information for yourself ;-)

For the record:

1) I began one week ago ranked #2,000+ or something with $1,000 to bet with.

2) I only have ONE account [BlueSeaMiami].

3) I don't have any affiliation with HubDub or any of its partners.

4) I don't cheat. I have an exceptional analytical mind. It's my profession and how I make a living.

5) A large part of my gains have been derived from guessing whether the Dow Jones Industrial Average will close higher or lower and from the political primary outcomes.

6) Though I was #1 before the question, I'd offered to return my profits from the weather bet. That's called confidence in one's self. Many of you lack that.

6) Even without the weather profits, if you're smart and bet BIG, as I do, you can go from $1,000 to $13,000 in less than a week, too!

Some of you would never make it in the real world with real money trading stocks, futures and betting on sports with big money-- you win some, lose some. We're talking virtual dollars, people. Quit whining and move on.

ah the hubris is deafening bluesea, you vainly attempted to argue windchill and sure put up a crybaby posting yourself.. you make your living how? make it in the real world how?

for the record and for future temp. predictions, a Thermometer will NOT register lower
if it is in 50 mph winds vs. 0 mph. that is a fact.

A good definition of windchill:

A measure of apparent temperature using the effect of wind and temperature on the cooling rate of the body.
www.ksee24.com/weather/glossary.aspx

If temperature is only a single component of windchill (windspeed being the other), then how can you consider windchill = temperature.

This may be the achilles heel of hubdub... Maybe I should define what I mean by achilles heel - I don't mean it in the litertal sense (I don't actually know anyone named achilles) - but it sounds like some of the crybabies on this forum may need an explanation.

I did not wager on this. I'm totally impartial on this, and I feel sure in saying that Wind Chill and Temperature are not the same. Wind Chill is "it feels as cold as if it were actually X degrees". If there is no wind, the body heats air around it and makes you feel warmer. If there is a light breeze, that warmth is blown away from you. If there is a strong wind, your body and clothing's insulation factor drops significantly. So while the temperature was around -20 to -30 degrees in parts of ND, the wind chill did get to -54.

But wind chill is not temperature. It's wind chill.

Look at the following graph: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Wind_chill.png

So while the temperature could be -20, or -30, or even -15 degrees, if the wind is strong enough the wind chill can make it to -54 or even lower.

The correct answer to this question is very clearly NO.

One other note: -50 degrees F is -45.5 c. Either way the temperature didn't make it that low. Answer is still clearly NO.

Gaming the system is a separate issue.

This question is no less no than "Is The Earth Flat?"
Seriously.
Why would wind speed effect temp. in any way?
Please, for the sake of Humanity and all that is known to be Truth.
What is the temp. of the Wind blowing?
Please.
"Is The Earth Flat?"
Really.
Think about it.

Wind chill is not based on evaporation. Very little evaporation happens at temperatures below freezing. Winds increase the effective surface area of the air on an object. Therefore winds cause humans to lose heat more rapidly. A person standing outside in a temperature of 30 degrees with no wind will warm the air around him and if that air doesn't move, the heat will slowly radiate outward. However, if the wind is blowing, then the air around him that is absorbing his radiated heat is immediately blown away. This causes him to lose heat at a faster rate--as if the temperature were actually lower. The loss of heat is scientifically similar to things dissolving. Add a spoonful of sugar to a glass of water and let it dissolve. Add the same amount of sugar to another glass and stir it while it dissolves. Which one dissolves faster? The water absorbs the sugar in the same way that the air absorbs heat. Stirring increases the effective surface area on the undissolved sugar the same way wind increases the effective surface area on a warm object outside in the cold.

http://www.wunderground.com/US/ND/Garrison.html#History

Read the "History and Almanac" part on the page the record for lowest temp EVER is -9f, -22c
Therefore, the answer is NO, even though the question was voided

guess what i just found out...i can prove blueseamiami gamed the system...the link he put up says the windchill went down to -54 on the morning of the january 29th, but when he placed his bet, it was after that....so he saw the report, made the bet, waited till the question ended and sent his link in...kinda shady miami

Looks like it..

bleu see miami, You do not have an exceptional analytical mind. YOU CANT EVEN UNDERSTAND THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN WINDCHILL AND TEMPERATURE. AND YOU HAVE BEEN MAKING A FOOL OF YOURSELF ON THIS MESSAGE BOARD. FOOOOOOOOL

IF this question was voided, why did I lose my money?

I lost my money, too. Worse yet - I had the RIGHT answer!!!