Killing Creativity?

http://www.hubdub.com/m56439/How_many_Barack_Obama_Action_Figure_dolls_will_be_for_sale_on_Ebay_10202009

Why was this voided? This was one of the most original questions of the week. I really like the effort of the author and his background. The two small flaws could have been corrected with an Cat Eds Info or two highlighted additions in the background

"1 till 10" includes "0" - zero was not very probable because at the moment there are 36
"Only the artikels found with the official link in the question count even found articles that are no doll. Other spellings don´t count."

It only cost me a minute to fix a great question (how to settle - other alternative solutions were possible) - it cost almost the same time to write the void text.

Save questions - don´t void them!

I wrote about this in an email yesterday, as I'm the one who voided. Here's the salient part of that message:

"It’s far too easy to game such a question; there’s nothing at all to stop an eBay-enabled Hubdub player from 1) waiting until just before suspension, 2) betting heavily on the “51 or more for sale” option, 3) heading over to eBay to list, say, 100 nonexistent Obama dolls, 4) collecting on the Hubdub wager, 5) then de-listing the phantom dolls."

I followed that with the following Hubdub rule:

2.2.5 Types of question

"Questions should have a clear resolution and not be open to gaming. Questions that have failed this criteria include number of Search engine (e.g. Google, Yahoo, etc.) search results for a certain term (varies by user); whether something will be listed on eBay; home page tickers; and whether a particular picture will appear on a news site's home page; and how many live questions or predictions Hubdub will have."

Now, none of that is to say that anyone would game that market in such a manner, or even a similar one. But, as much as we love creative questions, we simply can't allow markets that are so obviously easy to mess with.

How much would the ebay auction listing fees be on 100 nonexistent Obama dolls? ;-)

Hi sqlman thanks for explaining.

There are plenty of possibilities to make 10K or 30K on many questions daily if one has the cash.
Assuming that someone goes to the effort to offer 15 fake auctions to win a few H$ is highly unrealistic IMO. That person should hire me for a few bucks I can earn him a few Ks instead of paying ebay ;-)
And the Cat. Ed. would have to check the number anyway so 15 auctions with hfl13 should be easy to track. I know dozens of question that are not in agreement with at least one hubdub rule and they all get settled. I have the written ok from Nigel to bet on myself at a question were I can not only influence but make my aswer all by myself.

I won´t use the quoted rule on this question because this is not a question asking How much will eg Wilburs Obama Doll make? but a far superior question about a already great number of articles.

Isn´t Sarah Palin´s X-Box on Ebay a HD question too? And if I am a crazy lunatic millionaire I can game that question too?

Is this partisan bias ? Just poking fun ;-) :-)

How to use the rules is one of the big questions of hubdub. If we are only left with the kind of easy to settle, pasing every rule questions hubdub would have lost a huge advantage.

My thoughts are with chatarra - he has spend lots of thoughts to bring us a original and funny question and spend lots of time on that. If that happened to me a few times I would either gave up on creating questions or leave hubdub

It´s my opion that most complex questions should be fixed or even be allowed to pass with a small rules violation. A hint or coment or email should be enough to tell the author not to make a daily question out of that design or fix design or rules flaws in his next try.

(I only use this as an example to discuss this and I will add all future cases of insensitive voids - my voided Qs were all very well communicated and easy to fix till now)

In my opinion, this market was, quite simply, too easy to game to allow it to remain open. I don't believe that any eBay-type markets should be allowed here, and your hfl13's own comment about the Sarah Palin X-Box perfectly illustrated why: as soon as one is allowed, others will come along and say--with some validity--"He did it, so why can't I?"

Yes, there are a number of obstacles to gaming this one, but it's my belief that a determined and creative person wouldn't have a difficult time in doing so. Now, there are an almost unlimited number of markets that can be created where those betting on it cannot exert any influence whatsoever on the outcome; I'd like to see my fellow Huddub members play it safe inside that vast and mostly uncharted area rather than create questions that can be swayed by anyone here.

So that's an end to all Hubdub related questions (e.g. how many will be at level x) then? After all, if I could game eBay type questions then so much easier when they are HubDub related... oh wait, how about Twitter qs? Or anything about internet traffic? Or even my q. about the internet poll for most important invention at the London Science Museum?

Sometimes I wonder... sqlman, I actually agree that gaming is a Bad Thing. But there is a big difference between "betting on it cannot exert any influence whatsoever" and being able to effectively influence the outcome of a market.

I think you hit the nail on the head, bookie: "...there is a big difference between 'betting on it cannot exert any influence whatsoever' and being able to effectively influence the outcome of a market." If someone asks a Twitter-related question such as "Will the Colorado Balloon Boy have half a million followers by December?". you're right; it's highly doubtful anyone from Hubdub would have the ability (or the time) to sway the final answer. But if someone asks, "Will bookie have 200 followers on Twitter by December?", that simply wouldn't be allowed, as a single HD user could completely change the results.

Applying such reasoning to the eBay market in question here, it seemed that a single HD user could definitely exert a huge influence on the results, either via the method I outlined or any of several others. If I erred in voiding that market--which, again, I don't believe I did--it was on the side of caution...and given the, er, vociferous reactions of some members of the HD community, I'd much rather face the slings and arrows provoked by a 'bad' void than those brought on by a tampered or rigged settlement. ;-)