Will an Iranian missile fly through the air and leave Iranian airspace during 2008?

How do we prove deliberate?

Based on recent rhetoric from Iran, I would be shocked if they did not proudly beat their chest about a missile launch, I don’t think they’ll pull the trigger and NOT brag about it. That being said, I do now see that the use of my word deliberate could be problematic with my inclusion of the word accidental also.

Anyway, here’s hoping the missiles slowly grow dust and are not used at all.

Great Q dude ... Actually, I hope they do fire it, and it's computer system shoots it the wrong direction and it lands on Imonijeb, Emanojedb, OH HOWEVER you spell his name's, house and it leaves him with a slight headache :-D

OR it gives us and Israel the accuse to blown him to smitherings :-P

@lucid
to remember his name, i use "Im a dinner jacket".
Amadinajad

Wow! The Iranians are proving themselves to be skilled at Photoshop also. 4 missiles launched, or more likely 3! http://thelede.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/07/10/in-an-iranian-image-a-missile-too-many/index.html?hp

That raises an interesting question. What if it is a Photoshop missile that leaves Iranian airspace? :-)

http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=D91R394G0&show_article=1

Iran test-fires more missiles in Persian Gulf.... or DID they? Should we be skeptical of these announcements at all? Perhaps some careful scrutinty would be in order.

Dear Sirs and Ladies - I don't know what debate rages behind the scenes that has delayed action on this question, but it's been suspended an ungodly length of time. Was a launch outside Iranian airspace "reported by a major mainstream news source"?

Hello everyone and many many apologies for the "ungodly" (what a wonderful word!) delay in this question. Following the settlement request I received, I've been going thru the reports with a fine tooth comb and have been been unable to find information that truly settles this question. So I will have to reopen it.

To clarify, I do not think that the intention of the question creator was to include vertical airspace (i.e. straight up above Iran), so that won't be taken into account. (Please correct me if I'm wrong VnH!)

I hope this is ok with y'all!

Lesley x

@ Lesley

Nope, you are exactly correct. My intention was an Iranian missile, launched from Iranian soil that landed OUTSIDE their borders, not just straight up like people shooting off guns in celebration. I am deliberately looking for the distinction of a missile that crosses out of Iranian jurisdiction, granted they could launch one south into the Arabian Sea, I guess that would also qualify, otherwise it would at least fly over, or land in a bordering country.

http://www.monstersandcritics.com/news/middleeast/news/article_1424822.php/Iran_launches_first_communication_satellite__Roundup_

@Erik. Reading comments 9 and 10, it would appear vertical airspace doesn't count. That would rule out a satellite-capable rocket. No-one's airspace was violated.

Infernal.....It's gotta land somewhere.

And we'll be counting on you, Erik, to send us in the reports of exactly where it did land. ;-)

O.K. infernal, here’s my report:
The market asks if a major mainstream news source will report that an Iranian missle flies through the air and leaves Iranian airspace during 2008.

Indeed, this has happened.

orbit
Function: verb
Date: 1943
transitive verb
1 : to revolve in an orbit around : circle
2 : to send up and make revolve in an orbit <orbit a satellite>
intransitive verb : to travel in circles
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary

To wit:
TEHRAN (Reuters) - Iran said on Monday it was ready to help fellow Muslim states launch satellites into orbit after it successfully put a dummy satellite into orbit -- a move that may increase Western suspicions over its atomic ambitions.
http://www.reuters.com/article/worldNews/idUSLI72158420080818

"On Monday the Iranians announced the successful launch into orbit of a rocket capable of carrying a satellite into space."
http://themedialine.org/news/news_mideast_daily.asp?Date=08/18/2008&category_id=8

On Sunday, Iranian television showed images of a nighttime rocket launch, and said a satellite had been sent into orbit. Iranian officials later said that only the rocket had been fired.
http://www.iht.com/articles/2008/08/18/africa/19iran.php

"The main aim of the launch of Safir 1 was to reach a pre-planned orbit and to improve the country's space industries," Taqipour said.
http://www.presstv.ir/detail.aspx?id=66881§ionid=351020101

Iran's state television also quoted Reza Taghipour, head of Iran's space agency, as saying that the Safir rocket was successfully launched, paving the way for placing a satellite in space "in future."
A "test satellite was put into orbit," the television said.
http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2008-08/18/content_9474143.htm

I realize that other reports claim that it did not reach orbit. However, this is "reported by a major mainstream news source." It should be honored as such, even if later found to be untrue...orbit was reported. Orbit means it left Iran's airspace. I agree that this is tricky, but reported meams reported. I request settlement as "Yes."

By the way infernal, in re: your comment #12.
No where in the market, or in comments, is there mention of violating another nation's airspace.
Only this:
"I am deliberately looking for the distinction of a missile that crosses out of Iranian jurisdiction..." (vnh comment #10)

OK. Fair enough. valornhonor says: granted they could launch one south into the Arabian Sea, I guess that would also qualify, so violating another's nation's airspace was my addition, and not what he said at all. But it has to land somewhere to count, by comment 10, and that somewhere has to be not in Iran. Also, given the history on this question, we are not looking for reports of what Iran said happened, but what is verified to have happened.

Finally, and most importantly, Lesley clarified this question as not including "vertical airspace", so attaining orbit would not count. For the last 3+ weeks, that has been what the question means, and new predictions were made with that understanding. I'm not going to change that now.

Infernal---
The entire sentance that you note in comment 10:
“I am deliberately looking for the distinction of a missile that crosses out of Iranian jurisdiction, granted they could launch one south into the Arabian Sea, I guess that would also qualify, otherwise it would at least fly over, or land in a bordering country.”
If it’s reported to have gone into orbit..."it would at least fly over, or land in a bordering country."...otherwise it wouldn't have been in orbit!

In re: Lesley’s clarification:
“To clarify, I do not think that the intention of the question creator was to include vertical airspace (i.e. straight up above Iran), so that won't be taken into account. (Please correct me if I'm wrong VnH!)”
Vertical airspace (i.e. straight up above Iran), is not an orbit. Orbit has been reported by many mainstream news sources.

I realize that perhaps you are looking for an armed missle being tested or shot at another nation. However, that is not what this market asks. Please note the background: “For ANY reason, PR, intimidation, accidental lauch, offense, defense, anything...”

I believe the above rebuts your objections. Please correct me if I've missed anything.

Again, I ask for settlement.

I was hoping this would settle on it's own, but since you asked (Tisha), you are correct, my intent was a missile, launched from inside Iran, that went up and then crossed the border of another country, if I'm in my yard and I send a rocket straight up for 1,000' and then it drops straight back down into my yard this will fascinate my neighbors, but it is a much different thing if I shoot it off and it lands in THEIR yard. Tisha, you are correct, my intent was that the missile crossed a border, not just straight up. My apologies Erik for a lack of precision.

Respectfully, VNH...I appreciate your intent. However, the market, as posed, has been answered. Once again, I ask for settlement.

@ Erik

Thank you again for your precision, Here's hoping those who have fingers on the triggers for things that go Swoosh or Boom from Iran will have the same level of scrutiny and attention to detail that you obviously posses. I will endeavor to ensure that both my markets (and their 100 character space limit, this one had 83 characters, I should have used the remaining 17 to be more explicit I guess), and my background information do not leave such apparent gray areas for interpretation, may you continue to enjoy this site. If someday Iran decides to be very ambitious with their weapons such things as this little matter on HD will seem relatively trite indeed.

Cheers,
VnH

Valornhonor:
I readily understand the character limit, and appreciate the cunumdrum that it places on folks. I fail to see, however, where your background information negates the reporting by major mainstream news sources of an Iranian missile sent into orbit... which, by definition, means that said missle left Iranian airspace during 2008.
I realize that this was not a war scenario.
I also realize that a war scenario was possibly what you were thinking of when creating this market.
But...That's not what the market is.
The market plainly asks:
"Will an Iranian missile fly through the air and leave Iranian airspace during 2008?
Settlement details: As reported by a major mainstream news source."
This has been satisfied, my friend.
Again, I ask for settlemant and agree wholeheartidly with your assesment of Iran.

God Bless America,
Erik

"but once they cross one's border" is contained in the background.
does this not suffice?

@ cognos,

I presume Erik considers there to be a 'border' above each country. Reminds me of an effort some time ago for a jurisdiction in California that had determined a fixed satellite over itself was taxable...

@ cognos,

I presume Erik considers there to be a 'border' above each country. Reminds me of an effort some time ago for a jurisdiction in California that had determined a fixed satellite over itself was taxable...

Airspace: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Airspace
30 km? 100 km? 160 km? Not only is there no agreed upon standard for the limits of national jurisdiction, there is no such thing as a "border" between Iran and outer space.

Lesley clarified this question to not include "vertical airspace", based, quite likely, on the repeated use of the word "border" in the Background.

Further more, the success of the rocket launch is being seriously contested by Western Intelligence sources: http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20080819/ts_afp/usiranmilitarymissile_080819202831

The question does not ask about Iranian announcements, but about whether something actually happened or not. If a question asks about a fact, then reports of announcements are not reports of facts, which is what is required to settle the question.

If, as it seems to me, Erik, you are trying to use news reports of an announcement of an event (the facts of which are contested) to force the settlement of a question which does not actually include such an event in its common-sense grounds for settlement, which requires the reportage of facts and not simply of announcements, and which has been previously clarified by the Category Editor to expressly rule out the use of such an event in the settlement of the question, then it would hardly be to the larger community's benefit if I were to allow myself to be swayed by such sophistic (http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=sophistic&x=0&y=0) arguments.

As I've stated before, the market asks, verbatum, "Will an Iranian missile fly through the air and leave Iranian airspace during 2008?"
Settlement details are: "As reported by a major mainstream news source."
I think we're all trying to get way too technical. It's a tes or no market.
Several mainstream news sources reported an I ranian missle going into orbit, which by definition requires leaving Iranian airspace.
Nowhere is there mention that said projectile must enter another nation's airspace to qualify for a Yes settlement.
valornhonor, In fact, you state, "... granted they could launch one south into the Arabian Sea, I guess that would also qualify..." So, I hardly see the reason for your snippyness in comment #25. I certainly do not think that one's airspace continues into the heavens. No where have I insinuated such drivel and I'm quite insulted that you would sugest that I have. I'm simply going on your statement in #25. Perhaps it's you who may think that a nation has claim to the Arabian Sea, sir.
infernal, what I am trying to do is to use several major main stream news source's reports (as required by the settlement details) to reach settlement on a market. Nothing more, nothing less.
Acording to this market, all that is required is that this occurance be reported by a major main stream news source. It's been repoted by several. You have the links and quotes.
It's really quite plain and simple...
Again, I request settlement and an end to the juvenile insinuations, gentlemen.

With honor on my end, at least-
Erik

@eric

once again, please see lesley's comment #9.

Thank you sir.

Cognos>... a major mainstream news source didn't report it going straight up. They reported it going into orbit!!!

which direction is the orbit, erik?
i thinks you are playing with words from another orbit.

or better said, what is straight up, eric?

You're a piece of work, cognos-
Don't know what direction an orbit is?
Buy a dictionary, or ask your English teacher when recess is over.
Main Entry: orbit
Function: verb
Date: 1943
transitive verb
1 : to revolve in an orbit around : circle
2 : to send up and make revolve in an orbit <orbit a satellite>
intransitive verb
: to travel in circles

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary

<<< Don't know what direction an orbit is? >>>
Tell me Erik ...

What direction is an orbit? I mean, please describe to me, east, west, left, right.

Travelling in circles is not a direction. But I am starting to sound like you.

Comment #9 was very clear.

"To clarify, I do not think that the intention of the question creator was to include vertical airspace (i.e. straight up above Iran), so that won't be taken into account." - Lesley.

What do you not get?

Please, let us put this market to rest.

I agree with cognos in #33. Not settling this question on satellite launches (with or without orbit, with or without satellites, successful or not, and no matter where pieces of the rocket end up) because that neither matches the intention of the question, in whole or in part, nor is in keeping with the previous clarification in #9.

Question re-opened.

I have had over $H3k on 'YES' in this market.
I 'wish' that the rocket the Iranians fired would qualify to settle this market.
BUT, I know better.
The rocket fired does not count. We are looking for rockets fired outside of Iranian airspace, that LAND in an area not within Iranians borders.

Man oh Man it is hard to fight for "Right" when you're money is on the 'other side'.
But, fight I must.

I don't try to decipher intent in a market. All I can go on is what is stated in print. I'm not a mind reader. In print, this market asks if a major mainstream news source will report that an Iranian missle left their airspace in 2008. Indeed this has happened.
Cognos, get a grip....I don't see any mention of east, west, left or right....You really need to talk to your kindergarten teacher, young man.

infernal...amazing that you are denying settlement on intent of this market stated by a third party (what you refer to as clarification comment #9 by Lesley) when the creator of this market is asking for settlement. Where did all of the mind readers come from? And when did we stop settling markets on the way they are written? Intent is one thing...the written word is quite another. If you intend to say it's raining, don't piss on my boots and give me "intent" garbage.