3rd Presidential Debate 10/15: Will there be a question about ACORN?

Eventually, BHO's shady allegiances will haunt him.

"Who’s Afraid of ACORN, and Why"
http://open.salon.com/content.php?cid=27676

"The GOP voter-fraud vendetta might have remained exactly where Bush loyalists wanted it—below the radar of the press—had it not been for the scandal surrounding the firing of eight U. S. attorneys, including David C. Iglesias of New Mexico. Iglesias lost his job in December 2005 after he declined to prosecute a voter-fraud case against ACORN, which had been registering large numbers of voters in the state’s low-income and largely minority neighborhoods in 2004. Prominent New Mexico Republicans, including U.S. Senator Pete Domenici, had repeatedly complained to chief White House political strategist Karl Rove about Iglesias’ failure to bring voter-fraud indictments. Once Iglesias said he couldn’t prove a case against ACORN, his days were numbered.

ACORN became a target because of its successful voter-registration work. As the 2004 election approached, then-Attorney-General John Ashcroft launched a broad initiative to crack down on supposed voter fraud in battleground states, including Florida, Missouri, Ohio, and New Mexico, where ACORN was making headway registering voters. In all of those states, Republicans filed suits against ACORN for voter fraud, and, in every case, ACORN was exonerated."

"ACORN has registered over 1.3 million voters. Over 60% are people of color. This is a horrifying development for Republicans and the McCain campaign."

• Fact: Barack was never an ACORN community organizer.
• Fact: ACORN never hired Obama as a trainer, organizer, or any type of employee.
• Fact: ACORN was not part of Project Vote, the successful voter registration drive Barack ran in 1992.

In his capacity as an attorney, Barack represented ACORN in a successful lawsuit alongside the U.S. Department of Justice against the state of Illinois to force state compliance with a federal voting access law."

[...]

"Ken Blackwell is best known today for disenfranchising Democratic voters in his dual role as Ohio Secretary of State and chair of George Bush’s Ohio campaign in 2004. To see him shed crocodile tears for the integrity of the vote while making accusations about Barack and ACORN with absolutely no basis in fact is disturbing.

Blackwell’s attacks against ACORN and community organizers continue a vile Republican pattern of mockery and viciousness against this noble profession. Community organizers are the very individuals Republicans should be celebrating for helping people to help themselves rather than depending on the government."

http://fightthesmears.com/articles/20/acornrumor?source=sem-pm-fts-ac-search-us-yah

"By contrast, Sarah Palin has real and documented connections to the Alaska Independence Party, which is far more extremist than even the most far right of the Republican Party. The main platform of that party, as Alaska Independence Party leaders have stated, is a rejection of the United States and an effort to cause Alaska to leave the union. Given what this party
represents today, Palin's ties to that party deserve to be an issue in the campaign."
http://www.politicalaffairs.net/article/articleview/7531/
"Does Sarah Palin Want to be an American Citizen?"

deelilley - your using salon as a source to defend acorn...thats using the NRA as a source to defend palin. acorn is under fed investigation in at least 8 states right now.

from your source - Fact: ACORN never hired Obama as a trainer, organizer, or any type of employee.

In his capacity as an attorney, Barack represented ACORN - either he was or wasn't an employee...tell acorn and salon to make up their mind.

He wrote such a long comment i would have formed a rebutel but it seemed to much like work.

C'mon diesel...is your Dentist your employee? Neither is your Lawyer.

@ dragon, I picked out the juicy parts for you, go crazy.

"Republicans filed suits against ACORN for voter fraud, and, in every case, ACORN was exonerated."

"ACORN has registered over 1.3 million voters. Over 60% are people of color. This is a horrifying development for Republicans and the McCain campaign."

To.... much..... writing.....

Exonerated, huh? This is not news...it's been going on for years, it's how ACORN makes their $$.
ACORN always turns in grand numbers of registrants, thereby showimg that there is a need for ACORN to exist.
Fraud? Been goimg on for years.
Exonerated? Hardly.
http://www.kansascity.com/news/politics/story/832923.html

The dragon complaining about too much writing? Everywhere I look I see your comments!
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I actually mean this as a compliment. Chatting and leaving comments on questions are a great part of Hubdub. And, I find a lot of yours pretty funny. Keep em coming.

Why thank you. Its my duty to the hubdub, to this country, and to all americans to defend us from any threats! Be they communists *cough* jsevigny *cough* Liberal *cough*deelilley*cough* or wrong *cough*democratic party*cough*.
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deelilley - i pay my dentist to do work, what does that make him? same as for a lawyer, if i "hired" one to represent me i pay him. are they on my weekly payroll..no. their still employeed by me while their working for me. again from your source (or "ANY" type of employee) you shouldn't use salon as a credible source. they tie obama directly to acorn. find a MSM source that says obama has no ties to acorn. the difference between obama and palin in this case..palin don't deny she associated with AIP. whats the big deal if obama had links to acorn? why is he running from it? is he ashamed to be tied to such a honorable group? ("ACORN has registered over 1.3 million voters. Over 60% are people of color.") obama duck's and dodge's anything and everything that might cause him to give a straight answer. it's called character..imho obama lack's in that department.

"In 2006, ACORN workers submitted fraudulent forms in Kansas City and later pleaded guilty to federal charges."
http://www.kansascity.com/news/politics/story/832923.html

GUILTY! *slams his gavel*

@diesel Walnuts is pretty erratic these days...and all he's offering is more of the slimy Rovian tactics that Americans, hopefully, aren't falling for this time.
If all this crap really matters, why didn't he bring it up 5 months ago, hmm? Maybe you'll find a MSM source that says Obama had no ties, but this says he did: http://fightthesmears.com/articles/20/acornrumor?source=sem-pm-fts-ac-search-us-yah

@ Erik Tsk. Senators have been found guilty of various crimes & misdemeanors, but no one has found the Senate guilty. Same goes for anything; Pepsi, Bear Stearns, oops...and ACORN has indeed, been exonerated.

...I was fascinated to learn that ACORN was connected to the resignation of Abu Gonzales; a truly horrible specimen: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alberto_Gonzales

How free can you be when the Executive controls the Judiciary?...not very.

deelilley - i'm not the one saying obama had no ties to acorn YOU are. then you use liberal websites and blogs to say he wasn't. the very sources YOU use say obama had ties to acorn. i just suggested you use a MSM source, instead of biased ones. I COULD CARE LESS IF OBAMA WAS PRESIDENT OF ACORN. i disagree with obama's policies..not what group he belonged-belongs to.

@ diesel Please read my poasts more carefully, you're all *ties* up in a knot.
First it's Obama's character, and now it's his policies that bother you?
Fine. Just know that John (the economy is sound) McCain is Bushier than Bush in the policy department...never thought I'd see *that* LOL

N.B. I made a boo-boo, it wasn't ACORN that Abu resigned over:
"Last summer, I reported in Shelterforce magazine on the Republican-directed vendetta against voter registration, orchestrated from the White House against those, like the grass-roots anti-poverty group ACORN, who have a history of working to register poor and minority voters."
http://open.salon.com/content.php?cid=27676

Close enough..

deelilley - so i can only disgree with one thing with obama? i said he lacks character cause he won't state his view and stand by it. i don't agree with his policies of higher taxes and bigger govt..just to name two. if he had a solid postion on other things i could name more. as of today he hasn't said anything on a consistent basis to be able to tell what else he believes in.

so i'm not confused..do you think obama has ties to acorn?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8vJcVgJhNaU

The whole ACORN thing is a feeble distraction from the bigger picture: "The U.S. economy, unarguably the strongest and most stable in the world just eight years ago, has been systematically decimated and destabilized to the point of near-bankruptcy."

@ diesel Well, you are confused, and you definitely didn't read my poasts like I asked you to.
I'll find it..."In his capacity as an attorney, Barack represented ACORN in a successful lawsuit alongside the U.S. Department of Justice against the state of Illinois to force state compliance with a federal voting access law."
And why are you harping on statements in the MSM that you haven't provided links for?

Anyhoo. this part is way more interesting:
"As the 2004 election approached, then-Attorney-General John Ashcroft launched a broad initiative to crack down on supposed voter fraud in battleground states, including Florida, Missouri, Ohio, and New Mexico, where ACORN was making headway registering voters. In all of those states, Republicans filed suits against ACORN for voter fraud, and, in every case, ACORN was exonerated."

But they're trying again anyway.

""We are looking for a very aggressive last 30 days," said Greg Strimple, one of McCain's top advisers. "We are looking forward to turning a page on this financial crisis and getting back to discussing Mr. Obama's aggressively liberal record and how he will be too risky for Americans."
http://tinyurl.com/4osr5y

McCain Attended ACORN Event
http://newsone.blackplanet.com/elections/mccain-attended-acorn-convention/

deelilley - your statements make no sense is why i'm confused. i never said i had any MSM links to provide. i suggested you should use a MSM source instead of a biased left wing source like salon. you keep prasing acorn as this wonderful group, then wanna say obama has-had nothing to do with them. it's perfectly clear that he has in the past and plans to in the future. erik provided links to acorn's guilt, notabl has link to a video of obama praising acorn, and his plans with them in the future. you keep bringing acorn up..then say it's a distraction. i only pointed out from YOUR source that obama has ties to acorn. you wanna say he don't thats fine. typical liberal speak..say one thing then do another.

ACORN is not the Communist Party, for pete's sakes. It registers voters. Yes, it has registered some voters erroneously, but when it has been investigated, in every case it has been exonerated. Why has the Republican Party, and Karl Rove in particular, decided to continue to go after ACORN, and why do Republicans and right-wingers mindlessly and robotically repeat their charges? Because they are terrified of poor and minority voters.

@emmag: you keep making stuff up. Republicans are not "terrified" of anything, and you should avoid bringing race into this - racism is despicable and you will not win any arguments that way.

As to being "exonerated" - no proof there either. In fact, then news in Tampa says "Vote drives defended, despite fake names", and goes on to describe how ACORN is submitting regestrations with patently false information. If that isn't enough, we could talk about Ohio, Nevada, Illinois, ad. infinitum.

About the "poor" - ACORN has tried like to avoid paying its own members the minimum wage. For instance, in California "ACORN -- champion of a high minimum wage -- once sued the state of California in an effort to avoid paying its own employees the state's minimum wage." http://www.epionline.org/studies/epi_acorn_05-2003.pdf

here is the Tampa news link: http://www.tampabay.com/news/politics/elections/article852295.ece

Are you calling me a racist, NN? Because I said the Republicans are terrified of poor and minority voters? Is that your method of debate, to accuse someone of a horrible thing when they say something you don't agree with? That's what's despicable.

What race does Mickey Mouse belong to? :-D

@emmag: Yes, you brought up race, without any evidence or supporting facts. That type of behavior is called race-baiting. The fact is that both parties have members of all groups in America, economically, socially, religiously, professionally, and racially. To make a broad stereotypical statement is not helpful, and undermines any value that may have been in the points raised, since they can be so readily disproven.

@ mork Good one :) That kinda sez it all...even John (the economy is sound) McCain supports ACORN.

@ enmag Hey, it worked in 2004! <eg>

@ deisel Nice tap dancing and hand waving there; but you need to work on your reading comprehension. I not only didn't deny a tie, I provided a quote that claimed that there was a tie.
Twice.

I tried to keep up with these comments at the begining but you all started writing so much i quickly gave up. Want to give me the highlights?

The puggies are still throwing the terrorist card around.
What else is new?

deelilley - comment 2 - • Fact: ACORN never hired Obama as a trainer, organizer, or any type of employee.

comment 6 - C'mon diesel...is your Dentist your employee? Neither is your Lawyer.


dd - comment 11 - i pay my dentist to do work, what does that make him? same as for a lawyer, if i "hired" one to represent me i pay him. are they on my weekly payroll..no. their still employeed by me while their working for me. again from your source (or "ANY" type of employee) you shouldn't use salon as a credible source. they tie obama directly to acorn.

dd - comment - 15 I COULD CARE LESS IF OBAMA WAS PRESIDENT OF ACORN. i disagree with obama's policies..not what group he belonged-belongs to



yea i'll keep hand waving and dancing while you (twice) say obama has ties, and the source you provide denies it. case we all know our dentist and laywer don't get paid to work for us...they do it for free.

obama said...troop surge won't work. then lays out serval bench marks that have to be met when the surge starts working. as each bench mark is met obama doesn't give credit, just keeps saying it failed cause they haven't met the bench marks that are left. then after all bench marks are met but 1 (complete withdraw) he still won't admit he was "BEHIND THE CURVE."

But I also know that Saddam poses no imminent and direct threat to the United States, or to his neighbors.
http://www.hubdub.com/m11938/CAMECOCCJ_Buys_3500_Barrels_Iraq_Yellowcake__Stock_Closes_OverUnder_37_80108
again..he was "BEHIND THE CURVE."

deelilley - comment #14 - @ Erik Tsk. Senators have been found guilty of various crimes & misdemeanors, but no one has found the Senate guilty. Same goes for anything; Pepsi, Bear Stearns, oops...and ACORN has indeed, been exonerated. so if acorn is innocent why they paying $25,000 to defray cost? hire the poor then threaten to take their job-shut down their office if they don't get more names. if senator "X" is convicted of theft, the senate don't pay to defray the cost.

Jul 26, 2007

SEATTLE (AP) - King County prosecutors filed felony charges Thursday against seven people in what a top official described as the worst case of voter-registration fraud in state history, while the organization they worked for agreed to keep a better eye on its employees and pay $25,000 to defray costs of the investigation. GUILTY!

But in interviews with King County Sheriff's Detective Chris Johnson, several of the defendants - while freely admitting they forged the forms - insisted that they had been told ACORN would shut down their office in Tacoma if they didn't improve their numbers, Johnson wrote in a probable cause statement.




http://www.komonews.com/news/8729967.html


not 1 or 2 rogue employee's..8 convictions. see a pattern starting to evolve here?
april 7 2008

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
April 7, 2008
Grain Valley, MO - On April Fools Day, the Association of Community Organizations for Reform Now (ACORN) accused the MoCRI of "fraud," trying to play the media and Missouri voters for fools while knowing full well their own employees had plead guilty to voter fraud. It's true; federal prosecutors announced eight ACORN employee convictions the very next day. St. Louis election officials have said they have had problems with ACORN submissions in past years. not 1 or 2 rogue employee's..8 convictions. GUILTY!
http://www.missouricri.org/pr_04_07_08.html

hey deelilley dance your way around these. didn't you say "ACORN has indeed, been exonerated?" now there's serval more investigations into OBACORN...OPPS ACORN in 2008. BTW - FYI these ain't blogs saying this. i can hear you now acorn wasn't found guilty...it was their employee's. so if i buy a new chevy and the window leaks from a bad insallation at the factory, who pays to fix that? the employee? GM? can you arrest GM? can you put GM in jail? acorn hires these people acorn is liable for their actions.



i have nothing more to say on the subject. this acorn deal is goofy..as i said before "I COULD CARE LESS IF OBAMA IS PRESIDENT OF ACORN." have a nice day.

"The fact is that both parties have members of all groups in America, economically, socially, religiously, professionally, and racially." That may be true, NN, but are blacks, for example, represented by the GOP in Congress? There are currently 40-something black US Representatives. Not one of them is a Republican. What does that tell you about the diversity you suggest the GOP contains? Republicans never have and never will win a significant portion of the poor or black vote, and it's very easy to investigate that.

The Republican party is the party of fear and fearfulness. They are scared to death of what McCain last night called "class war." Republicans are terrified of terrorism, terrified to live without guns, terrified of ACORN, terrified of immigrants, terrified of Arabs ... the list goes on and on. What terrifies them most, evidently, is the idea of a black man who is more educated than they are becoming president of the United States, an event that now appears inevitable.

You also might want to be careful about who you call racist. It's a very strong word, and when you throw it around loosely on the internet, you risk looking like an ingoranus, because for all you know, the person you're insulting may be a Civil Rights veteran.

"The fact is that both parties have members of all groups in America, economically, socially, religiously, professionally, and racially." That may be true, NN, but are blacks, for example, represented by the GOP in Congress? There are currently 40-something black US Representatives. Not one of them is a Republican. What does that tell you about the diversity you suggest the GOP contains? Republicans never have and never will win a significant portion of the poor or black vote, and it's very easy to investigate that.

The Republican party is the party of fear and fearfulness. They are scared to death of what McCain last night called "class war." Republicans are terrified of terrorism, terrified to live without guns, terrified of ACORN, terrified of immigrants, terrified of Arabs ... the list goes on and on. What terrifies them most, evidently, is the idea of a black man who is more educated than they are becoming president of the United States, an event that now appears inevitable.

You also might want to be careful about who you call racist. It's a very strong word, and when you throw it around loosely on the internet, you risk looking like an ingoranus, because for all you know, the person you're insulting may be a Civil Rights veteran.

@jsevigny:

I was responding to emmag's acusation that Republicans are "terrified of poor and minority voters", and I stand by what I said.

@ diesel, chill man, you're dropping more ACORNS than my neighbours' oak.
That's some not caring.

"There’s simply no way to gather over one million new voter registration forms without some of the forms having been filled out with bogus information. You could ask the group to automatically toss out the obviously wrong ones — some guy saying he’s Tony Romo, someone else saying he’s Mickey Mouse — but the law requires them to hand all the forms in to prevent them from tossing out forms filled out by people who say they want to register Republican. Consequently, if you go out and register over a million voters you’ll wind up with a lot of bad forms being submitted. But just as 30,000 is a lot of people and also only a very small fraction of one million people, when you’re talking about registering over a million new voters you’d need orders of magnitude more bad forms to constitute real evidence of a systematic fraud campaign.

Meanwhile, if you want to reduce the number of bad forms submitted, you have basically three options:

1. Make voter registration much easier and more automatic so as to reduce the need for registration drives.
2. Let registration organizers toss out forms.
3. Stop all registration drives by conflating good faith errors with systematic, criminal fraud.

Conservatives like option (3) because they don’t like it when large numbers of people vote. And that’s what this is about, finding a backdoor way to delegitimize all efforts at large-scale registration drives. It’d be as if instead of trying to ban computers (obviously impossible) you passed a law saying you could throw someone in jail for selling a computer that’s prone to crashing. It’s computer sales fraud — the thing’s supposed to work! Well, nobody knows how to build a crash-free computer so, bye bye computer industry."

http://tinyurl.com/3w46nh

The Complete Guide to ACORN Voter Fraud:
http://tinyurl.com/4ucs4n