Will physician assisted suicide be legalised in states other than Oregon in USA in 09?

I meant she or he can request

God bless the great State of Oregon. We have medical weed cards too.

It would behoove other States to have a 'system' in place for those who require these services. I have every intention of utilizing them if need be.

God i hate our state c2r! I think that they take a look at my beliefs, then they do the opposite! Good fishing at least.

dragon....really? i know there are some serious tard laws here but do you oppose state assisted suicide and medical marijuana? i see those as good things. and we have domestic partnership....not quite there on the marriage bit so far but closer than some other states at least.

Yes allowing people to murder themselves is a good thing! And marijuana has no benefit that cant be done with asprin. Domestic partnership is... fine i guess.

i don't get it. what's your damage if someone terminal and in great pain checks out? THEY have to obtain the drugs from the Dr.s to do it....their family can't go get them. It's a very humane law. And it's RARELY even used. i take comfort knowing that option is available here.

i don't get the weed to aspirin comparison either. pot has proven medicinal value for calming the nausea of chemo patients, the pain of cancer patients and the THC in weed reduces the pressure on the eyeball in cases of glaucoma. there is value in this plant for many things that can't be derived from an aspirin.

They are pain releivers. Thats all they do. And they have the power of an asprin. People want them medically accepted because they want to get easier access to it.
And for the terminal thing i dont care how much pain there in, murder, even of a person in pain, is wrong for a docter to do.

Well if you are so opposed, don't suicide yourself. Funny....I had you pegged as someone who would probably support de-regulation and all. Or maybe you do and you're just one of those freaks who thinks that business's should have unlimited rights but what people do with their own bodies is the governments business. No right to have an abortion, no right to choose the time of your death when your already terminal, no right to medicate with a natural plant but yes to being forced to buy synthetic medicines ....how utterly Republican.

funny.. i had you pegged as someone who would probably support regulation and all. Or maybe you do and youre just one of those freaks who thinks business's should all belong to the government but when peoples lives are at risk its up to them. Right to kill babys, right to murder pained patients, right to get high off a plant that has all the medical use of a asprin ... how utterly Democratic.

so, people have the right to shoot other people, but not to kill themselves? who called me hypocrite?
and, just for the record, "aspirin" would not be permitted nowadays because of the adverse effects.

?? What effects do asprin have? And as for guns, criminals will always have ways to get guns. Mexico for example, its illegal people to own guns but there are still shootings going on. Banning guns only stops innocent people from getting guns and being able to defend themselves from criminals!

@dragon, banning abortion only means you'll wind up having to support a number of those kids with an increase in welfare and the medical costs passed along to you. you know, one of the things you bitch about, when your not off dissing climate change or promoting guns and war. so trash the environment, kill those who are here already, makes guns more accessible to people who don't have them and save the unborn and dying and in pain. great values. let me guess....you probably support the death penalty too.

Good guess.

"to defend themselves from criminals" by shooting them. so, by your argument, you have the right to shoot people and to execute them, but dare to kill yourself. although shooting myself would just involve my personal freedom to decide.

I bet you would propose the death penalty on attempted suicide.

lol, :-)

@ krujis.....i can see dragon supporting the death penalty for attempted suicide, he he. see, he shares those 'bush family values'...you know...where life is precious and worthy of defense from conception to birth. after that you are on your own. don't come looking for a handout, don't resort to crime because you've been handed a crap deal in life and you're desperate and no fair trying to remove yourself as a target for someone else to kill!

and that is the complexity of the republican party here. they don't want anybody telling THEM how to run their business but they INSIST on telling you how to live and govern your body. and if you live somewhere outside the US and have something they want they will find a way to steal it, be it thru contracts forced thru the WTO or a military invasion.

So youre saying that all kids whose parents want to have an abortion are just going to be criminals? Thats an awfully broad statement. i think that someone whose parents wanted to have an abortion can still live a very successful life. No different from any other kid. Its not up to a mother to decide if that child gets to live or die it should be up to the kid. Thats a despicable argument your making about them. You know whose parent wanted to get an abortion? Winston churchill. Im sure he was very glad he was able to live. There are hundreds, thousands, maybe even millions of cases of children rising up from poverty to become rich and successful, and if you walked up to one of them and told them they shouldnt have been born because you thought they were going to be a strain on society im guessing they would tell you to stick it.

well if they are rising up as you say, i'm sure affirmative action is playing it's role.

but that's beside the point. my body, my right to choose. you people will NEVER overturn roe vs wade. get over it. and in time assisted suicide and gay marriage will prevail in all states.

oh yeah....and God bless RU486!!

So what your saying that a majority of people who want abortions are african americans who need affirmative action? That sounds more racist than anything i said when you called me a racist.
Assisted suicide and gay marriage will never prevail in the states. There are brief glimmer of hope for those causes like oregon for assisted suicide and california for gay marriage, but i think that people realized in california at least that having the government force the churches to do something they dont relegiously believe in is a clear violation of separation between church and state and the right to freedom of religion. Assisted suicide could only be legalised in the crazy state of Oregon. Neither one of these will spread.

where does abortion start, actually? somehow, it start when using a condom, doesn't? you know: every sperm is sacred. every sperm is great. if a sperm is wasted, God gets quite irate.

LOL

On the issue of whether aborted children are more likely to commit crime check out the work that steve levitt has done on that issue (its true by the way)

Also on guns - in about 1995 a guy call Martin Bryant got a few automatic weapons together an killed 35 people in Tasmania, Australia. It remains the worlds largest mass murder. Prime Minister John Howard set about destroying over 800,000 guns in move unpopular with the farming/gun lobby. Over ten years later and gun related deaths (both of legal and illegal owners) has fallen dramtically - Dont fool yourself dragon - less guns = good

"On the issue of whether aborted children are more likely to commit crime check out the work that steve levitt has done on that issue (its true by the way)"

Huh? I don't think aborted children do much of anything besides getting buried.

lol - i reviewed that right after i wrote it - obviously the point is that the children who are aborted are ones that, if left unaborted, would go on to commit crime moreso than the children who tend not to be aborted.

Steve Levitt's analysis is fascinating, he started looking into the issue when crime in america began to drop, right across the board, in the late 1980's. No theory really explained why crime would go down in grafitti, fraud, murder, drug offfences ect all at once.

Then Steve Levitt pointed out that it had been around 17-18 years since the 1972/3 decision of Roe v Wade.

@buckojo:
From http://concealed.wordpress.com/2007/12/12/•-gun-control-fails-in-candadaaustralia/

Australia saw its violent crime rates soar after its 1996 gun control measures banned most firearms. Violent crime rates averaged 32% higher in the six years after the law was passed than they did the year before the law went into effect. Murder and manslaughter rates remained unchanged, but armed robbery rates increased 74%, aggravated assaults by 32%. Australia’s violent crime rate is also now double America’s. In contrast, the United States took the opposite approach and made it easier for individuals to carry guns. Thirty-seven of the 50 states now have right-to-carry laws that let law-abiding adults carry concealed handguns once they pass a criminal background check. Violent crime in the United States has fallen much faster than in Canada, and violent crime has fallen even faster inright-to-carry states than for the nation as a whole. The states with the fastest growth in gun ownership have also experienced the biggest drops in violent crime rates.

Also:

Here is the comparison in violent crime trends between Australia and the United States for the period of 1995 to 2001, calculating rates by dividing the number of crimes reported (7) by the population figures. (8,9). (Negative trends are in parentheses.)

Homicide:	AUS - (11%)	US - (32%)
Assault:	AUS - 39%	US - (24%)
Rape:	AUS - 19%	US - (14%)
Robbery:	AUS - 70%	US - (33%) (10)

And here are the references for that article:

(1) What Gun Controllers Don’t Want You to Know
http://www.chronwatch.com/content/contentDisplay.asp?aid=7862

(2) The Australian Government Structure, Alan Quartly, Pagewise, 2002. http://me.essortment.com/australiangover_rbpt.htm

(3) Australia: A Massive Buyback of Low-Risk Guns, Reuter and Mouzos, 2002.
http://www.puaf.umd.edu/faculty/papers/reuter/gun%20chapter.pdf

(4) Australian Institute of Criminology Online Action Plan, May, 2002, page 1.
http://unpan1.un.org/intradoc/groups/public/documents/APCITY/UNPAN003990.pdf

(5) Australian Crime Facts and Figures 2002, Australian Institute of Criminology, November, 2002, page 7.
http://www.aic.gov.au/publications/facts/2002/facts_and_figures_2002.pdf

(6) Ibid, page 8.

(7) Ibid, page 5.

(8) 1995 Australian Population, Year Book Australia, Australian Bureau of Statistics
http://www.abs.gov.au/Ausstats/abs%40.nsf/94713ad445ff1425ca25682000192af2/0db74c39eee3a02fca256b350010b402!OpenDocument

(9) 2001 Australian Population, Nation by Nation
http://www.nationbynation.com/Australia/Population.html

(10) FBI Uniform Crime Reports. http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/ucr.htm
Source of all reported US crime rates in this article.

someone considered other possible reasons for the trends?
like drugs?

"Property and violent predatory crime in Australia reached a peak in 2000, due to an epidemic of heroin use that began in the mid-1990s. Since that time, heroin use and heroin-related crime in Australia have fallen sharply."

notablenotices, for the sake of clarity,
can you provide statistical data newer than 2001?

The percentage of homicides committed with a firearm
continued a declining trend begun in 1969. In 2003, fewer than
16% of homicides involved firearms. The figure was similar in
2002 and 2001, down from a high of 44% in 1968

Since March 2001 the monthly number of robberies has
decreased by 51%, or an average decline of 1% each month.

Robbery, type of weapon, 2004: 5% vs Unarmed: 64%

http://www.aic.gov.au/publications/facts/2005/facts_and_figures_2005.pdf


I love statistics.

krujis> So do I.
You may want to check out these stats for Kennesaw, Ga. were gun ownership is mandatory:
http://www.cityrating.com/citycrime.asp?city=Kennesaw&state=GA

'Those who hammer their guns into plows will plow for those who do not.'
~Thomas Jefferson

RIGHT TO BEAR ARMS REFRESHER COURSE

1. An armed man is a citizen. An unarmed man is a subject.
2. A gun in the hand is better than a cop on the phone.
3. Colt: The original point and click interface.
4. Gun control is not about guns; it's about control.
5. If guns are outlawed, can we use swords?
6. If guns cause crime, then pencils cause misspelled words.
7. Free men do not ask permission to bear arms.
8. If you don't know your rights, you don't have any.
9. Those who trade liberty for security have neither.
10. The United States Constitution (c) 1791. All Rights Reserved.
11. What part of 'shall not be infringed' do you not understand?
12. The Second Amendment is in place in case the politicians ignore the others.
13. 64,999,987 firearms owners killed no one yesterday.
14. Guns only have two enemies; rust and politicians..
15. Know guns, know peace, know safety. No guns, no peace, no safety.
16. You don't shoot to kill; you shoot to stay alive.
17. 911: Government sponsored Dial-a-Prayer.
18. Assault is a behavior, not a device.
19. Criminals love gun control; it makes their jobs safer.
20. If guns cause crime, then matches cause arson.
21. Only a government that is afraid of its citizens tries to control them.
22. You have only the rights you are willing to fight for.
23. Enforce the gun control laws we ALREADY have; don't make more.
24. When you remove the people's right to bear arms, you create slaves.
25. The American Revolution would never have happened with gun control.

posted by Brandy Burkhardt at 5:33am On WLS Radio's web-site

Yawn.

To... Many... Facts...

dont get lost in stats from a self interested gun lobby website dragon.

Just stand back and divide the number of annual gun related deaths in the US by its popultion, then do the same for Australia, then compare the ratios, and youre off to a good start.

(oh yeah and dont forget to compare the number of deaths related to self defence to the number of deaths committed as a crime, or listed as accidental)

@buckojo:

Would you say that a gun related death would be worse than any other kind?

@NN

"Worse?" No, not necessarily, although the definition of 'worse' merits consideration - are you saying that a person who doesnt have access to gun will invariably carry out a murder using some other weapon?

The fact that many Americans cannot see the folly of such a permissive gun culture never fails to astound me...I dont want to be able to buy an M16. The fact that so many people in the US can purchase military grade weaponry scares me shitless.

@buckojo:
I have a few questions:

Are you saying that people who own guns are potential murders, simply because they have a gun?

Would you prefer that only criminals have guns in their possession?

Would you post a sign on your front door that says "owner has no weapons"?

Should we ban automobiles and swimming pools, since they too can kill people? (Ok, that was just for the effect... :-) but they do kill more innocent people than guns do)

But seriously, if you look at the cities where they ban or restrict guns in the USA (San Francisco, Chicago, Washington DC, etc) they really don't have crime free records. I think criminals are emboldened when they know they are the only group of people who are likely to have weapons.

I have buried both of my parents. My mom was struck suddenly with a brain anurism. My dad was 92 and he was praying to join my mom. Let it be. My dad got his prayers answered and I was so happy he did. God bless both of them.

To c2r
When the pain of this world is too much to bear and the desire to find happiness with the person you've loved unconditionally for many years happens, let the person go. He or she is going to be with their loved ones, This suicide feeling comes when you have reached the conclusion that GOD no longer cares for you. It comes when the feeling hits you that all hope is lost. God just loves you. All he does is close a window and open a different door....keep moving forward and do God's work . It is all Good.

This is a postscript to my comment above:
God is good. These assholes that hurt people are not aligned with my God. The ones that hate gays, dislike transgenders, can't handle transsexuals and people that are really different are not aligned with my God. My God loves everyone. Just had to blurt this out to my friends.

So does my God, buckeye. You feel free to blurt that out any time you feel like it, brother.

c2r
Thanks for making the world united and real under one God.

@NN

1. everyone is a potential murderer, irrespective of whether they own a weapon. People who own a gun and who decide to commit murder have a custom built tool for the job that makes them potentially very efficient killers. Martin Bryant killed 35 people with semi-automatic weapons. He would have not been able to do so with a chainsaw, knife or sword.

2. No, i would not prefer only criminals to own guns. I would prefer guns to be in the hands of law enforcement, the army, farmers and sporting shooters when they are carrying out their respective roles. We need to look long term. Of course if you ban guns, criminals (by definition) will end up with guns. Those people need to be prosecuted, and, in 200 years or so, present day guns will be mucher rarer. The idea that people need guns to protect themelves from criminals with guns has appeal, but is not borne out by thefacts. Again, compare gun deaths in self defence cases with gun related homicides and accidental gun deaths.

3. I would not post a sign on my door that says owner has no weapons. I do have weapons incidentally, such as a great big butchers knife. I do not feel that signs on doors, or armed civilians is the best way to combat crime. If you's liek a specific example, our approach to drugs laws needs to be totally overhauled so that it is treated as a medical, rather than criminal, issue.

4. I dont know the stats on car and pool deaths vs guns. In any event mere comparison of competing death causers does not good policy make.

5. I do not suggest that banning guns results in a crime free environment. This is not a debate on crime rates. It is a debate on harm minimisation. Society is more, rather than less, likely to suffer when flooded with guns; the american experience is a shining example.

"Would you post a sign on your front door that says "owner has no weapons"?"
I would rather be guest with someone who has such a sign on his door, as being guest of a weapons fanatic.

oh, sorry, you didn't ask me

@Erik,
http://www.cityrating.com/citycrime.asp?city=Alabaster&state=AL
Does Alabaster also have a mandatory gun ownership?

What is meant by mandatory? - surely they dont fine people for not owning guns? surely...

@Kruis 43 - you can tell people you know me - it is a terribly big butchers knife :)

@notablenotices: I somehow like the idea of putting a "residents do not own guns" sign at the front door to embolden all the armed criminals around here (Germany, in my case. I know, different culture and stuff, but your arguments don't seem to be that convincing when you have a look at the situation in all the countries where the casual guy on the streets doesn't have a gun in the drawer.)
I definitely do like the idea that the creep in the flat beneath mine probably doesn't own a gun...

@buckojo:

Thanks, that explains where you are coming from. I am not trying to change your mind, just curious as to your impressions. I feel nobody should be forced to own a weapon, just like nobody should be forced to give one up, unless they are threatening people etc.

I don't quite understand what you mean about the "American experience being a shining example" of a suffering society. Like I say, the most dangerous parts of this country are the ones where guns are banned. The illegal immigration problem here is from people trying to get in. But again, if someone doesn't feel safe visiting this country, that is not something I can change. There is always Mexico, where guns are generally banned...

@buckojo:

Thanks, that explains where you are coming from. I am not trying to change your mind, just curious as to your impressions. I feel nobody should be forced to own a weapon, just like nobody should be forced to give one up, unless they are threatening people etc.

I don't quite understand what you mean about the "American experience being a shining example" of a suffering society. Like I say, the most dangerous parts of this country are the ones where guns are banned. The illegal immigration problem here is from people trying to get in. But again, if someone doesn't feel safe visiting this country, that is not something I can change. There is always Mexico, where guns are generally banned...

@bernardo:

I know what you mean about the creep living downstairs... the last two places I have lived came with that problem. Luckily law enforcement ultimately took care of that situation in both cases, but I do understand!

Impressive style, how you uphold the Mexico example and don't let yourself distract by reality in other regions of the world.

Bernardo, I don't mean to disparage Mexico. Buckojo said that the American experience is a shining example of a suffering society. I was just pointing out that millions of people are trying to get into the American "suffering society" - illegally if necessary, leaving behind their country where guns are strictly regulated.

But you are right, there are many other regions of the world we could talk about too, and I don't want to single out Mexico unfairly.

To me it sounded like you were defending the status quo of gun ownership in the US by pointing at the general ban in Mexico..

NN @ 51 - America has much to commend it - it is not a 'suffering society' in the sense, that say, Afghanistan is a suffering society. It has many brilliant minds in many different fields. But, the sense in which it does suffer, the sense that is contextual here, is extent of murder and bodily harm caused by its unusual tolerance of guns. i think (stat needed - Kruis>?) that the annual gun related deaths are around 12,000 per annum. thats massive. But if you have a country of 250 mil, that also has about 250 mil handguns (handguns, not including auto and semi auto guns), then you need to expect that relatively enormous amount of gun related deaths. Mexicans who simply cannot get work will of course try and get into America - that is really quite besides the point - We are talking about the appropriateness of laws that allow pretty much anyone to get a gun. That state of laws will lead to a gun related death toll far above states that do not allow such ease of acquisition of firearms.

BTW - Eriks "25 refresher course in guns" is a joke. A 10 year old could poke holes in it.

Challange me on that Erik - ill give you the best answer i can to each one of those 25 maxims.

buckojo, not necessary but thanks for offering:

firearm-related death rate (per 100,000 pop/year)
12.1 Mexico
10.0 US
2.9 Australia
0.4 England


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_firearm-related_death_rate
http://www.nationmaster.com/cat/cri-crime&all=1

You have lost sight of the topic!!!!!

oh, right, Mexico was the topic.

lol

You have lost sight of the topic!!!!
all certainly did 4 predictions and now 57 comments

oh, right, Australia was the topic.

lol

point taken,
they do have a Dr of death here lives/lived in queensland
really lets face its a death question in disguise .

lol